1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,999 *preroll music* 2 00:00:04,999 --> 00:00:09,569 *preroll music* 3 00:00:09,569 --> 00:00:12,889 Herald: Our next talk 4 00:00:12,889 --> 00:00:15,949 is going to provide a bit of introspection. 5 00:00:15,949 --> 00:00:20,070 “We lost the war” has been the name 6 00:00:20,070 --> 00:00:23,050 of a talk also by Rop and Frank 7 00:00:23,050 --> 00:00:25,370 at the congress 10 years ago. 8 00:00:25,370 --> 00:00:29,020 And this is basically the updated version of that talk. 9 00:00:29,020 --> 00:00:33,570 Over the next hour, we’ll hear about the past and current events as well 10 00:00:33,570 --> 00:00:36,080 and the bold prediction for the future, I hear. 11 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:38,579 So please give a warm welcome to Rop and Frank! 12 00:00:38,579 --> 00:00:45,579 *applause* 13 00:00:48,319 --> 00:00:52,634 Frank: Thank you for being here! Let’s start with a very quick question: 14 00:00:52,634 --> 00:00:55,419 Who has seen, either in person, or on video, 15 00:00:55,419 --> 00:00:58,549 our talk from 10 years ago? 16 00:00:58,549 --> 00:01:02,269 And who has read the text that belongs to it? 17 00:01:02,269 --> 00:01:04,590 *chuckles* 18 00:01:04,590 --> 00:01:06,010 Ok, thank you! 19 00:01:06,010 --> 00:01:10,890 So, 10 years ago, at the congress, we felt that we needed to talk about 20 00:01:10,890 --> 00:01:15,870 the state of the world, about what the state of the hacker community is. 21 00:01:15,870 --> 00:01:19,560 Rop and me are coming from quite different backgrounds. 22 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:22,740 Rop is from Netherlands, I’m from East Germany, 23 00:01:22,740 --> 00:01:25,800 so we have both our perspectives on the hacker culture 24 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:30,760 and the position of the hacker culture in our world, but we share 25 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:34,980 a rather common way of analysing stuff and analysing the world. 26 00:01:34,980 --> 00:01:38,990 So, the talk back then depressed the hell out of a lot of people 27 00:01:38,990 --> 00:01:42,040 because it was just four years after 9/11 28 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:45,110 and people were not really ready to accept that 29 00:01:45,110 --> 00:01:49,800 things are probably not gonna be really good and nice 30 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:51,090 in the near future. 31 00:01:51,090 --> 00:01:56,710 And so, the press had quite a number of things to say; 32 00:01:56,710 --> 00:02:00,860 most of them circled around the cover of the “Datenschleuder” back then 33 00:02:00,860 --> 00:02:04,719 where the text was published that belonged to the talk. 34 00:02:04,719 --> 00:02:09,159 “Hackers raising the white flag”, “Hackers giving up”, in this way. 35 00:02:09,159 --> 00:02:12,910 Which was not really what we intended, actually. 36 00:02:12,910 --> 00:02:16,750 Because we actually wanted to just say: 37 00:02:16,750 --> 00:02:20,120 “Ok, reality is not looking too bright, 38 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:24,010 but that doesn’t mean we need to be depressed.” 39 00:02:24,010 --> 00:02:27,200 And this is somewhat what we’re trying this year again. 40 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:31,610 *chuckles* 41 00:02:31,610 --> 00:02:36,820 So, one of the critics that we had in this talk 42 00:02:36,820 --> 00:02:40,760 was that we used the term “they” a little bit too losely. 43 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:44,650 “They” meaning “the others, the enemies”. 44 00:02:44,650 --> 00:02:47,700 So, we just want to clarify up-front 45 00:02:47,700 --> 00:02:51,090 that we don’t really believe in large conspiracies. 46 00:02:51,090 --> 00:02:53,660 The world is too complex for large conspiracies. 47 00:02:53,660 --> 00:02:57,069 There is no world government that does all these things; 48 00:02:57,069 --> 00:03:00,820 it’s not like the Illuminati are sitting somewhere with the Gnomes of Zurich 49 00:03:00,820 --> 00:03:04,620 and doing this stuff, but 50 00:03:04,620 --> 00:03:09,420 it’s also not like freedom and liberty don’t have enemies! 51 00:03:09,420 --> 00:03:12,549 As probably, many of you have seen the talk about 52 00:03:12,549 --> 00:03:15,349 the people who got incarcerated in Guantanamo, 53 00:03:15,349 --> 00:03:18,270 there are people out there who really don’t believe 54 00:03:18,270 --> 00:03:21,129 in freedom and democracy and they are plenty, and they are powerful. 55 00:03:21,129 --> 00:03:24,770 And this is what we meant with “they”. 56 00:03:24,770 --> 00:03:26,750 *chuckles* 57 00:03:26,750 --> 00:03:28,640 In that sense. 58 00:03:28,640 --> 00:03:34,030 Rop: The other criticism that we got is that you can’t really speak of a war, 59 00:03:34,030 --> 00:03:38,300 upholding civil liberties, upholding democracy is a perpetual fight. 60 00:03:38,300 --> 00:03:41,690 You have to continuously fight, there is no winning, there is no losing, 61 00:03:41,690 --> 00:03:44,239 there is just this continuous struggle. 62 00:03:44,239 --> 00:03:47,550 Which is of course true! That criticism is completely right. 63 00:03:47,550 --> 00:03:49,970 But we argued and continue to argue 64 00:03:49,970 --> 00:03:54,580 that there are certain things that are so much easier to prevent than to undo 65 00:03:54,580 --> 00:03:57,500 and that the introduction of ubiquitous general surveillance, 66 00:03:57,500 --> 00:03:59,769 recording of everything, is one of these things 67 00:03:59,769 --> 00:04:03,340 that grows power structures which are incredibly hard to get rid of 68 00:04:03,340 --> 00:04:05,699 and it’s so much better to prevent. 69 00:04:05,699 --> 00:04:09,700 And that’s probably part of a class of events 70 00:04:09,700 --> 00:04:14,530 of turnings that are better to prevent 71 00:04:14,530 --> 00:04:16,329 than to have happened. 72 00:04:16,329 --> 00:04:19,889 The drone war is the beginning of the perpetual undeclared war 73 00:04:19,889 --> 00:04:23,230 fought by robots. 74 00:04:23,230 --> 00:04:25,230 There’s something fundamentally that changed 75 00:04:25,230 --> 00:04:28,240 when the West, when America introduced a system 76 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:32,140 of black sites and torture happening all over the world; 77 00:04:32,140 --> 00:04:35,910 prisons without any accountability where people can be locked up for a decade 78 00:04:35,910 --> 00:04:38,670 without any trial, without anything. 79 00:04:38,670 --> 00:04:41,580 And of course climate change brings possible tipping points, 80 00:04:41,580 --> 00:04:44,600 maybe behind us, maybe still ahead of us. 81 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,890 So these are all events where, yes, you can speak of war 82 00:04:47,890 --> 00:04:53,840 or at least of major battles, and of winnings and losses, in that sense. 83 00:04:53,840 --> 00:04:56,670 Frank: So, essentially, what we said was: 84 00:04:56,670 --> 00:05:01,770 “We lost the war when 9/11 happened.” 85 00:05:01,770 --> 00:05:07,610 And that was the war for taking the direct route to a positive utopia 86 00:05:07,610 --> 00:05:12,110 to a utopia that is not from the dystopian novels and computer games 87 00:05:12,110 --> 00:05:17,789 but is going straight to, yeah, the positive world outcome. We lost that war. 88 00:05:17,789 --> 00:05:22,160 And, if we look back, 10 years later, 89 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:26,680 very few people will probably dispute this finding. 90 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:29,270 So when we look quickly back at the predictions that we made 91 00:05:29,270 --> 00:05:33,710 we were mostly right. So the economy tanked 3 years later 92 00:05:33,710 --> 00:05:38,449 because the brittle system of banking nearly collapsed 93 00:05:38,449 --> 00:05:42,509 and was just by hair breadth rescued 94 00:05:42,509 --> 00:05:46,580 by means that really nobody understands anymore. 95 00:05:46,580 --> 00:05:51,720 So the one thing that we were wrong about so far is the price of oil 96 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:56,430 that, miraculously, currently is very low. 97 00:05:56,430 --> 00:05:59,079 But still nobody really understands why this is truly the case. 98 00:05:59,079 --> 00:06:01,109 It is utterly bizarre. 99 00:06:01,109 --> 00:06:04,770 So, democracy, if you look at what has happened to democracy 100 00:06:04,770 --> 00:06:06,680 in the Western societies 101 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:11,280 it is hard to argue that democracy has made large progress. 102 00:06:11,280 --> 00:06:13,400 On the contrary, what we see is, 103 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,750 that in many countries democracy is on the way out, 104 00:06:16,750 --> 00:06:21,220 is no longer the preferred system of government for many people. 105 00:06:21,229 --> 00:06:26,080 The security state, we can see it in our everyday lives, it is encroaching. 106 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,020 Meanwhile, you need to pass security check gates 107 00:06:29,020 --> 00:06:32,650 when you want to board a train in several countries. 108 00:06:32,650 --> 00:06:35,999 Ubiquitous surveillance is there. We have data retention. 109 00:06:35,999 --> 00:06:39,260 So the security state is making large progress. 110 00:06:39,260 --> 00:06:43,289 What we said back then, about climate and the refugees, 111 00:06:43,289 --> 00:06:46,209 has largely been vindicated. 112 00:06:46,209 --> 00:06:49,970 If you look at the weather patterns that we have: 113 00:06:49,970 --> 00:06:56,270 Today even in Reykjavik, they have now a storm with over 300 km/h 114 00:06:56,270 --> 00:06:58,210 that is coming in there. 115 00:06:58,210 --> 00:07:00,460 We don’t have winter anymore in Germany, 116 00:07:00,460 --> 00:07:03,259 so it is becoming kind of obvious 117 00:07:03,259 --> 00:07:05,889 that the climate is not right anymore. 118 00:07:05,889 --> 00:07:10,580 And the refugees that are being caused by this climate change 119 00:07:10,580 --> 00:07:13,250 are around the corner. 120 00:07:13,250 --> 00:07:16,810 So, another thing that we were talking about 121 00:07:16,810 --> 00:07:18,949 was surveillance and whistleblowers, 122 00:07:18,949 --> 00:07:23,600 and the need for that, we come a little bit later to that. 123 00:07:26,150 --> 00:07:30,200 Rop: This talk is not going to be as depressing as the one in 2005, 124 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:33,289 not because the subject matter is less depressing 125 00:07:33,289 --> 00:07:35,350 or has become better all of a sudden 126 00:07:35,350 --> 00:07:39,470 but because more people are used to the world being the way it is. 127 00:07:39,470 --> 00:07:43,820 There’s no longer... we no longer need to shock an audience into a world we see, 128 00:07:43,820 --> 00:07:47,259 that is completely different from the world that most people perceive. 129 00:07:47,259 --> 00:07:51,970 And the goal for this talk is to get a large group of mostly very smart people 130 00:07:51,970 --> 00:07:54,829 – being you and whoever watches this – 131 00:07:54,829 --> 00:07:57,780 to be as happy and as politically productive as possible 132 00:07:57,780 --> 00:08:03,650 in an environment that is still going to be increasingly dystopian. 133 00:08:03,650 --> 00:08:06,080 And when we talk about a dystopian environment 134 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:10,039 the most important issue that is pressing, immediate, and involves all of humanity, 135 00:08:10,039 --> 00:08:13,090 is, of course, climate change. 136 00:08:13,090 --> 00:08:16,090 F: So what we see is not so much 137 00:08:16,090 --> 00:08:20,210 a direct global warming but a “global weirding”. 138 00:08:20,210 --> 00:08:23,510 That means, that the weather patterns are shifting. The Hadley Cells, which is 139 00:08:23,510 --> 00:08:27,280 the way the water goes up and where the water goes down, are shifting. 140 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:31,420 That means that the livelyhoods of many people who are depending on agriculture 141 00:08:31,420 --> 00:08:35,919 are threatened. And we don’t know 142 00:08:35,919 --> 00:08:40,129 where these patterns will be moving. 143 00:08:40,129 --> 00:08:44,309 The one thing that we can see is that future generations 144 00:08:44,309 --> 00:08:48,290 will look back at us as the guilty party. 145 00:08:48,290 --> 00:08:53,270 We are the people, in their eyes, in the eyes of our children, 146 00:08:53,270 --> 00:08:57,359 we and our parents were the people who basically fucked up the planet, 147 00:08:57,359 --> 00:08:59,189 probably beyond repair. 148 00:08:59,189 --> 00:09:06,160 *applause* 149 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:09,459 And the one thing that we would like to call you on 150 00:09:09,459 --> 00:09:12,260 is taking this responsibility. 151 00:09:12,260 --> 00:09:17,689 So, what we see now with the Syrian war is just the beginning. 152 00:09:17,689 --> 00:09:20,989 It is just the early wars 153 00:09:20,989 --> 00:09:24,439 that have a strong climate component 154 00:09:24,439 --> 00:09:29,269 that we can see in many more conflicts that are rising. 155 00:09:29,269 --> 00:09:33,959 So most of the Arab spring had a large component of food riots, 156 00:09:33,959 --> 00:09:36,020 of food prices going up, 157 00:09:36,020 --> 00:09:38,810 which was certainly to a large extent also speculation, 158 00:09:38,810 --> 00:09:44,220 but also draught, meaning lack of water in large parts of the world. 159 00:09:44,220 --> 00:09:46,180 And there will be many more. 160 00:09:46,180 --> 00:09:53,179 So there is no real way to escape this reality any more. 161 00:09:55,519 --> 00:09:59,039 Rop: This planet is largely a crime scene. 162 00:09:59,039 --> 00:10:02,160 The fossil fuel industry, who have known about this 163 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:05,020 since the 1970s, 164 00:10:05,020 --> 00:10:08,730 needs to be killed or needs to be... their bottom line 165 00:10:08,730 --> 00:10:11,969 needs to be hurt significantly because a lot of the carbon that 166 00:10:11,969 --> 00:10:17,579 they’re currently getting out of the Earth needs to stay there and not be burned. 167 00:10:17,579 --> 00:10:21,339 The technology to change our energy infrastructure is already there, 168 00:10:21,339 --> 00:10:26,799 solar is already profitable or near profitable in a lot of places, 169 00:10:26,799 --> 00:10:30,759 and we need to fight conflicts that are 170 00:10:30,759 --> 00:10:34,519 going to have components in fighting in courts, 171 00:10:34,519 --> 00:10:38,500 they have components in fighting in demonstrations in the streets, 172 00:10:38,500 --> 00:10:42,759 we need to take charge of these issues. 173 00:10:42,759 --> 00:10:45,960 If you look at what’s currently happening with the fossil fuel industry, 174 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:48,369 it’s a lot like the tobacco industry. 175 00:10:48,369 --> 00:10:52,099 If you have known for so long that this was going on, 176 00:10:52,099 --> 00:10:54,379 and you have prevented the correct policy response 177 00:10:54,379 --> 00:10:59,809 by hiding the science, by muddling the image, 178 00:10:59,809 --> 00:11:02,159 then you have responsibility, and 179 00:11:02,159 --> 00:11:07,499 if there is damage, you are culpable for that. 180 00:11:07,509 --> 00:11:12,259 Also techno-optimism is a problem in our circles. 181 00:11:12,259 --> 00:11:16,520 Many people think: “Well, we screwed up this planet maybe, but we have spacecraft, 182 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:19,739 we can go to other planets, there’s other worlds!” 183 00:11:19,739 --> 00:11:22,639 That doesn’t work. There are no habitable planets in our reach 184 00:11:22,639 --> 00:11:26,049 and there won’t be for generations to come. 185 00:11:26,049 --> 00:11:29,379 So no matter how bad things may get on Earth, 186 00:11:29,379 --> 00:11:33,860 it’s still not going to be anywhere near as inhospitable, on a bad day, 187 00:11:33,860 --> 00:11:36,749 as it will be on Mars on the best possible day. 188 00:11:36,749 --> 00:11:39,069 See? That’s a positive message, huh? 189 00:11:39,069 --> 00:11:41,160 *laughter* 190 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:47,239 *applause* 191 00:11:48,549 --> 00:11:52,389 Frank: Yeah, I mean, the core of the hacker culture is: 192 00:11:52,389 --> 00:11:54,739 breaking stuff, fixing things. 193 00:11:54,739 --> 00:11:58,959 And this planet, if you can say so, is our spaceship, 194 00:11:58,959 --> 00:12:02,129 and it really needs fixing. 195 00:12:02,129 --> 00:12:04,419 And so this is something that we see 196 00:12:04,419 --> 00:12:07,579 that the hacker community or hacking community 197 00:12:07,579 --> 00:12:09,659 can do much more. 198 00:12:09,659 --> 00:12:13,719 And if you look at [from] where the refugees are coming 199 00:12:13,719 --> 00:12:16,189 and for what reasons they are coming, 200 00:12:16,189 --> 00:12:20,309 we see that there is a lot of regions that 201 00:12:20,309 --> 00:12:23,470 will become hard to live in 202 00:12:23,470 --> 00:12:29,559 so either because there is too much water, there’s too little water, 203 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:32,219 the ground turns into swamps, 204 00:12:32,219 --> 00:12:37,580 and so these countries will be massively struggling 205 00:12:37,580 --> 00:12:43,059 with how to feed their population, how to give them space to live, 206 00:12:43,059 --> 00:12:45,899 and there’s a lot of stuff to do, 207 00:12:45,899 --> 00:12:48,969 for technological minded people with organisational capabilities 208 00:12:48,969 --> 00:12:51,940 like our community is, to help these people. 209 00:12:51,940 --> 00:12:56,469 And to prevent also the dystopian streak that governments 210 00:12:56,469 --> 00:13:00,469 usually take on when they are in emergency situations. 211 00:13:00,469 --> 00:13:04,649 If you look at the larger refugee camps, 212 00:13:04,649 --> 00:13:08,319 that is a massively dystopian set-up. 213 00:13:08,319 --> 00:13:13,649 So people are wearing wristbands to register at every checkpoint, 214 00:13:13,649 --> 00:13:16,609 they are limited in their range of movement, 215 00:13:16,609 --> 00:13:20,669 they are just barely fed and housed and that’s about it. 216 00:13:20,669 --> 00:13:25,940 And that means that a world that is in constant emergency mode 217 00:13:25,940 --> 00:13:32,060 has a really hard time to be a democratic society. 218 00:13:32,060 --> 00:13:36,259 But on top of that, the West, the Western countries, 219 00:13:36,259 --> 00:13:40,459 but increasingly also China, and the other upcoming 220 00:13:40,459 --> 00:13:43,919 larger powers, have their hands in pushing countries 221 00:13:43,919 --> 00:13:48,639 into chaos, so we have seen now a large sequence of things 222 00:13:48,639 --> 00:13:51,149 that end up with Syria and Libya, 223 00:13:51,149 --> 00:13:54,880 where under the disguise of bringing forward democracy 224 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:58,690 with drones, countries are essentially pushed into chaos. 225 00:13:58,690 --> 00:14:00,639 Because no one took responsibility of 226 00:14:00,639 --> 00:14:03,119 setting up structures, setting up stability, 227 00:14:03,119 --> 00:14:05,249 making sure that the people there 228 00:14:05,249 --> 00:14:08,119 actually end up not in a much worse situation 229 00:14:08,119 --> 00:14:10,009 than they have been in before. 230 00:14:10,009 --> 00:14:15,879 And so the human rights and the managing of 231 00:14:15,879 --> 00:14:22,089 migration is in direct conflict with the economic interest 232 00:14:22,089 --> 00:14:25,039 of the arms industry. If we look at 233 00:14:25,039 --> 00:14:27,150 who is selling these arms it’s mostly Western 234 00:14:27,150 --> 00:14:30,729 countries and Russia. And we are selling these arms to countries 235 00:14:30,729 --> 00:14:32,760 like Saudi Arabia which will be the next 236 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:37,629 large conflict zone. And which don’t have any democratic control. 237 00:14:37,629 --> 00:14:40,379 And we just do that under the disguise of 238 00:14:40,379 --> 00:14:43,209 providing stability to regions. 239 00:14:43,209 --> 00:14:45,589 And while bombing countries into democracy 240 00:14:45,589 --> 00:14:49,350 fortunately has become very much unpopular 241 00:14:49,350 --> 00:14:52,589 this is also why the arms industry is pushing so much 242 00:14:52,589 --> 00:14:55,720 for drones. Because drones can fly around 243 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:59,279 and not destabilize countries for oil 244 00:14:59,279 --> 00:15:04,149 and not causing body bags coming home. 245 00:15:04,149 --> 00:15:09,839 But it would be wrong to say that US foreign policy 246 00:15:09,839 --> 00:15:14,120 has been a failure. It has not. 247 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:18,409 So if you look at the core interest behind this foreign policy 248 00:15:18,409 --> 00:15:23,420 what is happening there, basically countries being un-balanced, 249 00:15:23,420 --> 00:15:28,419 nobody really being able to concentrate their power to challenge their hegemony, 250 00:15:28,419 --> 00:15:30,689 this has been largely a success. 251 00:15:30,689 --> 00:15:34,339 So, sure, there has been a lot of chaos around, 252 00:15:34,339 --> 00:15:37,480 but economically, and for the arms industry 253 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:40,369 in these countries, especially in the US and the UK, 254 00:15:40,369 --> 00:15:44,309 but also other Western countries, this has been a very successful decade. 255 00:15:44,309 --> 00:15:49,220 So it’s not like their policies have been failures. 256 00:15:54,250 --> 00:15:57,389 Rop: *quietly, to Frank* Do you want to put this ? 257 00:15:57,389 --> 00:16:00,369 Next slide I think. 258 00:16:00,369 --> 00:16:06,199 Frank: Yeah, one of the things that are the tools 259 00:16:06,199 --> 00:16:10,799 of foreign policy *scoffs* in the West 260 00:16:10,799 --> 00:16:14,079 is of course ubiquitous surveillance and we had... 261 00:16:14,079 --> 00:16:18,349 In 2005, we wrote that we need 262 00:16:18,349 --> 00:16:21,339 to know how the intelligence agencies work today, 263 00:16:21,339 --> 00:16:25,599 we need to know how the backdoors work, 264 00:16:25,599 --> 00:16:30,329 and how that is done in large scale. That was 2005. 265 00:16:30,329 --> 00:16:33,970 And we also wrote that we need 266 00:16:33,970 --> 00:16:37,309 the infrastructure to harbour whistleblowers, 267 00:16:37,309 --> 00:16:39,449 to make it possible for people from the dark side to 268 00:16:39,449 --> 00:16:44,109 come forward, and get this information out. 269 00:16:44,109 --> 00:16:47,439 At least on this, it has been a success. *scoffs* 270 00:16:47,439 --> 00:16:49,299 This we can say. 271 00:16:49,299 --> 00:16:56,299 *applause* 272 00:16:57,549 --> 00:17:00,880 So we now know much more about 273 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:07,130 how the surveillance works, and – but does it really help? 274 00:17:07,130 --> 00:17:10,569 Rop: For most people, looking at the Snowden revelations, it’s like 275 00:17:10,569 --> 00:17:13,569 discovering a new force of nature. It’s like they have discovered 276 00:17:13,569 --> 00:17:16,989 this whole universe that they didn’t previously know about, 277 00:17:16,989 --> 00:17:21,909 there’s this “deep state” level of logic, of thinking, of diplomacy, 278 00:17:21,919 --> 00:17:27,939 of how countries really interact, that now many more people know about. 279 00:17:27,939 --> 00:17:30,749 What was considered paranoid, what was considered: 280 00:17:30,749 --> 00:17:33,940 “Oh my god, this is like a really cynical way of looking at things!” 281 00:17:33,940 --> 00:17:37,879 – now, many more people can see the documents, be they diplomatic cables, 282 00:17:37,879 --> 00:17:41,609 or be they the Snowden revelations, and they can look and they can see: 283 00:17:41,609 --> 00:17:46,659 “Look, this is really how the world works.” 284 00:17:46,659 --> 00:17:49,779 But, leaking alone is not sufficient. 285 00:17:49,779 --> 00:17:53,400 There’s – as we can now see – there’s too much systemic corruption, 286 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:56,850 too many secrets, too many anti-leaker laws and measures. 287 00:17:56,850 --> 00:18:00,170 We’re going to need true transparency laws and we’re going to need to be able 288 00:18:00,170 --> 00:18:03,159 to trust our governments and our parliaments to do the right thing. 289 00:18:03,159 --> 00:18:06,849 There was this naive belief that if the scandal is big enough, 290 00:18:06,849 --> 00:18:09,870 the system will finally correct itself. 291 00:18:09,870 --> 00:18:14,599 What we see is the opposite. We see a scandal of the magnitude of Watergate 292 00:18:14,599 --> 00:18:19,069 every week or every two weeks and nothing is happening. 293 00:18:19,069 --> 00:18:21,859 We need to cope with that, we need to come up with new strategies. 294 00:18:21,859 --> 00:18:26,170 It’s like the paranoid movies where finally the protagonist 295 00:18:26,170 --> 00:18:30,590 gets to the president, and tells the conspiracy to the president, and then 296 00:18:30,590 --> 00:18:34,419 finds out in, sort of, in shadowy words, he can find out 297 00:18:34,419 --> 00:18:37,169 that the president is already part of the conspiracy. 298 00:18:37,169 --> 00:18:41,000 When the Snowden revelations came out it was quickly clear that our governments 299 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:43,879 were not shocked, they were not like, “Oh my god, our intelligence agencies 300 00:18:43,879 --> 00:18:46,620 are really out of control! We need to do something!” No, they were like: 301 00:18:46,620 --> 00:18:52,269 “No, there’s nothing going on here, keep moving, pay no attention.” 302 00:18:52,269 --> 00:18:56,349 So we really need to come up with strategies to deal with that. 303 00:18:56,349 --> 00:18:58,950 Frank: So essentially their reaction was, 304 00:18:58,950 --> 00:19:02,650 it was one of the first from when the 305 00:19:02,650 --> 00:19:07,489 NSA was confronted by the German government, 306 00:19:07,489 --> 00:19:11,239 and their answer was: “So, ok, now you know.” 307 00:19:11,239 --> 00:19:13,099 *scoffs* 308 00:19:13,099 --> 00:19:17,420 But that was about it. So what we have is the situation 309 00:19:17,420 --> 00:19:24,020 that it looks like transparency alone doesn’t help anymore. 310 00:19:24,020 --> 00:19:27,790 We had somehow hoped that... It was also one of the naive beliefs 311 00:19:27,790 --> 00:19:33,099 of the early internet times, that transparency alone, “If people just knew”, 312 00:19:33,099 --> 00:19:37,509 if people knew the problems, the things, they would act, 313 00:19:37,509 --> 00:19:42,029 they would get their stuff together and, yeah, basically, change the system. 314 00:19:42,029 --> 00:19:46,000 And it turned out that this was a quite naive belief. 315 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,849 But that doesn’t mean that transparency is not important. 316 00:19:48,849 --> 00:19:53,400 It turns out that transparency is like basic hygiene, 317 00:19:53,409 --> 00:19:57,980 it’s like brushing your teeth, like taking a shower for society. 318 00:19:57,980 --> 00:20:02,440 So if you don’t have a transparency of power and the power structures 319 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:07,489 and of what interests are being conceived by whom, 320 00:20:07,489 --> 00:20:11,119 what the tools of surveillance are, “who knows what”, 321 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:13,800 then you cannot have a democracy anymore. 322 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:17,330 Because the world has become so complex that it’s very easy 323 00:20:17,330 --> 00:20:22,959 to hide relatively sinister interests within society. 324 00:20:22,959 --> 00:20:26,690 We even have the problem now that, if you have a proper conspiracy 325 00:20:26,690 --> 00:20:30,110 – a small one! – if you make it complex enough, 326 00:20:30,110 --> 00:20:34,839 the scandal cannot be told within one print page 327 00:20:34,839 --> 00:20:38,099 or one scroll range on the web site. 328 00:20:38,099 --> 00:20:41,440 Then it’s hard to have it as a scandal anymore. 329 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:47,339 Which is also part of the reason why the Snowden revelations were kind of 330 00:20:47,339 --> 00:20:52,710 difficult to turn into concrete action for the larger society. 331 00:20:52,710 --> 00:20:55,479 So one thing that we need to keep in mind 332 00:20:55,479 --> 00:20:58,349 is that even the well meaning people in government 333 00:20:58,349 --> 00:21:02,829 and in bureaucratic institutions really need transparency 334 00:21:02,829 --> 00:21:07,200 to keep things in check, so it’s not like transparency is useless or is 335 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,960 something that we should give up as a goal, 336 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,850 but we need to understand it has a different meaning, 337 00:21:12,850 --> 00:21:16,860 a different purpose than what we originally thought. 338 00:21:16,860 --> 00:21:22,700 So the question is will this apathy last? 339 00:21:22,700 --> 00:21:26,480 So, what will happen when people start realizing 340 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:33,459 that the surveillance that they have been trained to ignore somehow 341 00:21:33,459 --> 00:21:37,520 will be in everything that they own. When the “internet of things” 342 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:42,889 starts for real – we have basically network sensors 343 00:21:42,889 --> 00:21:46,579 in everything we own – then, suddenly, 344 00:21:46,579 --> 00:21:49,109 the world becomes treacherous. 345 00:21:49,109 --> 00:21:54,129 So everything that you own, every door that you open, 346 00:21:54,129 --> 00:21:58,579 everytime that you go to the fridge – if you have an “internet of things” fridge – 347 00:21:58,579 --> 00:22:02,639 then your fridge will snitch on you. *chuckles* 348 00:22:02,639 --> 00:22:06,210 And tell somebody that you opened it and what you took out of it. 349 00:22:06,210 --> 00:22:10,070 And if... the question is if this maybe will change things. 350 00:22:10,070 --> 00:22:12,309 It’s an open question to me. I don’t know. 351 00:22:12,309 --> 00:22:15,789 So maybe the people will stay in this apathy 352 00:22:15,789 --> 00:22:18,950 and not change their attitudes but maybe there is 353 00:22:18,950 --> 00:22:21,830 a critical mass point where people say 354 00:22:21,830 --> 00:22:25,090 “Now, it’s enough. It’s enough.” 355 00:22:25,090 --> 00:22:28,319 So, maybe we need a seal: 356 00:22:28,319 --> 00:22:31,129 “Certified cloud-less object” or something. 357 00:22:31,129 --> 00:22:34,130 that we need to stick on stuff. 358 00:22:34,130 --> 00:22:39,180 *applause* 359 00:22:39,180 --> 00:22:42,880 And this is also one of the things that the hacker community is being asked for, 360 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:47,550 as, actually, we are the ones... the hacking people are the ones that 361 00:22:47,550 --> 00:22:51,089 can actually do this, making objects cloud-less again, 362 00:22:51,089 --> 00:22:54,119 *chuckles* if needed. 363 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:57,869 If we look at the progress of technology we can see that facial recognition, 364 00:22:57,869 --> 00:23:01,300 including mood detection, micro-expression detection, 365 00:23:01,300 --> 00:23:04,229 infrared blood-flow detection will become very cheap, 366 00:23:04,229 --> 00:23:07,300 it will be everywhere. And we need to have countermeasures. 367 00:23:07,300 --> 00:23:10,569 And that means for instance also cooperation 368 00:23:10,569 --> 00:23:13,179 with the artists who make clothing, who make 369 00:23:13,179 --> 00:23:16,950 make-up, who do all the stuff that you can legally 370 00:23:16,950 --> 00:23:21,700 still wear in the public domain, and 371 00:23:21,700 --> 00:23:25,669 think about, with them, what we can do against this ubiquitous surveillance. 372 00:23:25,669 --> 00:23:29,169 So that brings me to the core question: 373 00:23:29,169 --> 00:23:33,479 So what is our mission as a hacking community? 374 00:23:33,479 --> 00:23:37,360 And I used to define this saying: 375 00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:40,369 we are partly responsible for maintaining 376 00:23:40,369 --> 00:23:43,319 society’s capability for change. 377 00:23:43,319 --> 00:23:45,820 To keep the wiggle rooms open, 378 00:23:45,820 --> 00:23:49,720 to keep the capabilities for political actors 379 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,389 who want to change the society for the better, 380 00:23:52,389 --> 00:23:54,879 to make that still possible. 381 00:23:54,879 --> 00:24:01,030 Not being strangled by surveillance, not being frozen in place by lack of options 382 00:24:01,030 --> 00:24:03,450 where people cannot do anything anymore 383 00:24:03,450 --> 00:24:06,470 because every step that they do is registered; 384 00:24:06,470 --> 00:24:10,140 everything that they do leads to potential blackmail. 385 00:24:10,140 --> 00:24:16,659 And Evgeny Morozov has recently written about that, 386 00:24:16,659 --> 00:24:21,410 and he said that’s the “invisible barbed wire” 387 00:24:21,410 --> 00:24:24,519 that is basically around you and that is made up 388 00:24:24,519 --> 00:24:27,619 of the data that you leave so that restricts your options, 389 00:24:27,619 --> 00:24:31,709 it restricts your room of movement and you’re not really 390 00:24:31,709 --> 00:24:37,089 realizing that, unless you run against the invisible barbed wire. 391 00:24:37,089 --> 00:24:45,050 And so this question of “blackmailability” versus transparency 392 00:24:45,050 --> 00:24:49,340 – we want to have as much privacy as we can as individuals, 393 00:24:49,340 --> 00:24:54,050 but we want to have the institutions that have power as transparent as possible – 394 00:24:54,050 --> 00:24:57,480 is in the core of the struggle for a free society. 395 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,179 Basically, giving the individual the right, 396 00:25:00,179 --> 00:25:03,759 or keeping our rights, for change, for movement, 397 00:25:03,759 --> 00:25:08,700 for making things better 398 00:25:08,700 --> 00:25:13,120 versus the institutions’ capabilities to keep stuff secret from us. 399 00:25:13,120 --> 00:25:16,760 This is one of the core struggles that we have. 400 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:21,789 And the intelligence agencies know stuff about those in power. 401 00:25:21,789 --> 00:25:27,619 They know what is blackmailable. And the interesting thing is that 402 00:25:27,630 --> 00:25:33,609 the number of blackmailable offenses has been shrinking recently. 403 00:25:33,609 --> 00:25:37,610 That has basically shrunk to: very clear corruption, 404 00:25:37,610 --> 00:25:41,590 pedophilia, and tax evasion. With everything else, you can get away. 405 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:46,789 So, as a politician, drug use is no problem, affair is no problem. 406 00:25:46,789 --> 00:25:51,730 Having strange hobbies: absolutely no problem. 407 00:25:51,730 --> 00:25:57,540 *laughter* *applause* 408 00:25:57,540 --> 00:26:03,060 Homosexuality – no problem anymore, very good! 409 00:26:04,650 --> 00:26:07,580 But, those people in the security apparatus 410 00:26:07,580 --> 00:26:09,840 that evaluate politicians and look at them, 411 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:14,649 and look what they can find against them 412 00:26:14,649 --> 00:26:18,809 in the black’n’old chambers – we don’t know. 413 00:26:18,809 --> 00:26:21,699 So we don’t know most of what politicians do. 414 00:26:21,699 --> 00:26:26,179 I mean, sometimes, we learn that they have bizarre habits 415 00:26:26,179 --> 00:26:31,580 involving their genitalia and pigs, which is, from my perspective, 416 00:26:31,580 --> 00:26:35,200 their private thing to do, but what’s more interesting is that 417 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:40,409 what the circle of men there did, was creating a shared “Kompromat”, 418 00:26:40,409 --> 00:26:46,000 a shared knowledge about each other that was so painful back then 419 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:51,389 to publish, to divulge, that they had, basically, mutually assured destruction 420 00:26:51,389 --> 00:26:54,530 against each other. This is how power circles work. 421 00:26:54,530 --> 00:26:58,250 And the intelligence agencies know this as well, and they want to get in there, 422 00:26:58,250 --> 00:27:04,569 and we have very limited resources to find out if politicians 423 00:27:04,569 --> 00:27:08,620 are in the hands of intelligence agencies. We can just look for the patterns. 424 00:27:08,620 --> 00:27:13,610 So if a politician suddenly changes his course 425 00:27:13,610 --> 00:27:17,859 on matters that the “deep state” intelligence agencies 426 00:27:17,859 --> 00:27:22,139 are concerned about, then we can be pretty certain that they have something 427 00:27:22,139 --> 00:27:26,940 against him that falls into the “still blackmailable” category. 428 00:27:26,940 --> 00:27:30,340 So why did Cameron survive this thing? 429 00:27:30,340 --> 00:27:34,749 Because everybody who could have overthrown him 430 00:27:34,749 --> 00:27:37,499 was part of the same circle. *chuckles* 431 00:27:37,499 --> 00:27:44,200 So they were all part of the same game and they knew about it. 432 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,239 So they created a space of invincibility around them. 433 00:27:48,239 --> 00:27:52,379 And so, the question then is, “Why does it all matter so little?” 434 00:27:52,379 --> 00:27:56,739 Why are all these big scandals that we know about, all this corruption, all these 435 00:27:56,739 --> 00:28:01,289 things, where we know that politicians really misbehaved, 436 00:28:01,289 --> 00:28:05,089 except for these three cases, but even then – 437 00:28:05,089 --> 00:28:08,900 why is nobody rioting on the streets? Why is nobody calling out a revolution 438 00:28:08,900 --> 00:28:11,530 just now, why is it that people are just saying: 439 00:28:11,530 --> 00:28:14,750 “Yeah, this is how it is, this is how it has been 440 00:28:14,750 --> 00:28:18,180 all the time and we cannot do anything about it?” 441 00:28:18,180 --> 00:28:22,210 Rop: For that, we have to look at the psychology of our time. 442 00:28:22,210 --> 00:28:26,829 We live in what circles around the “Adbusters Magazine”, 443 00:28:26,829 --> 00:28:31,149 by the Adbusters collective, described – and I thought that was really useful – 444 00:28:31,149 --> 00:28:35,290 they describe our time as a massively polluted psychological environment. 445 00:28:35,290 --> 00:28:38,639 And it makes sense to think about it that way. 446 00:28:38,639 --> 00:28:42,530 We have mechanisms for discourse in society and those mechanisms are 447 00:28:42,530 --> 00:28:47,529 deliberately sabotaged, by lobbying, advertising, sock-puppeting, 448 00:28:47,529 --> 00:28:51,229 the destruction of debate, and the destruction 449 00:28:51,229 --> 00:28:55,040 of the human ability to think properly, 450 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,640 is very widespread in our societies. 451 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,629 There’s no more proper discourse, there’s no proper facts, 452 00:29:01,629 --> 00:29:05,760 and there’s trends that counter any scientific thinking 453 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:10,590 or enlightenment – anti-vaccination, anti-science, anti-fact... 454 00:29:10,590 --> 00:29:15,829 There is a lot of thinking 455 00:29:15,829 --> 00:29:21,010 that rejects a common truth or rejects a common reality that we live in, 456 00:29:21,010 --> 00:29:24,369 and tries to find niches, tries to do... 457 00:29:24,369 --> 00:29:27,369 tries to retract into something 458 00:29:27,369 --> 00:29:31,459 that we can still believe. 459 00:29:31,459 --> 00:29:35,020 We need some kind of a rationality movement. We need some kind of a movement 460 00:29:35,020 --> 00:29:38,540 to say: “Look, we can disagree on policy, we can disagree on a lot of things, 461 00:29:38,540 --> 00:29:41,359 but let’s not disagree on facts. Let’s not...” 462 00:29:41,359 --> 00:29:44,749 And America is of course the capital of 463 00:29:44,749 --> 00:29:47,329 what has been described as “bullshit mountain”, 464 00:29:47,329 --> 00:29:53,929 as whole universes that are internally consistent 465 00:29:53,929 --> 00:29:58,139 – universes of fake facts, of fake realities, 466 00:29:58,139 --> 00:30:02,230 of fake, and we need to reject those. 467 00:30:02,230 --> 00:30:04,820 Much of science, of the scientific enterprises, 468 00:30:04,820 --> 00:30:09,330 at this point is very captured, economy is 469 00:30:09,330 --> 00:30:12,489 basically run by the large banks. 470 00:30:12,489 --> 00:30:15,860 But still: that doesn’t mean we can reject 471 00:30:15,860 --> 00:30:20,660 the practice of science, just because it’s currently not in the right hands, often. 472 00:30:20,669 --> 00:30:26,280 Facts are important. 473 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,979 And it’s also important to understand 474 00:30:28,979 --> 00:30:32,149 that being angry or unhappy 475 00:30:32,149 --> 00:30:34,389 right now, for prolonged periods, 476 00:30:34,389 --> 00:30:37,959 is a recognized medical condition. 477 00:30:37,959 --> 00:30:41,890 If you look at the world, and for a year or two years at a time, 478 00:30:41,890 --> 00:30:45,190 this world makes you really depressed, or angry, or unhappy, 479 00:30:45,190 --> 00:30:49,850 you can go to the doctor and you can get medication for that. 480 00:30:49,850 --> 00:30:54,179 Lots of people, 5% or 10% of the population in some countries, 481 00:30:54,179 --> 00:30:56,779 are on antidepressants. 482 00:30:56,779 --> 00:30:59,539 These are the people that cannot function, 483 00:30:59,539 --> 00:31:02,679 they basically do not want to go to work. 484 00:31:02,679 --> 00:31:07,550 Are we – and this is an open question – are we suppressing a critical mass? 485 00:31:07,550 --> 00:31:10,690 Because at some point, when there is no other people that don’t wanna go to work, 486 00:31:10,690 --> 00:31:14,309 and start a movement, or, I don’t know, 487 00:31:14,309 --> 00:31:17,810 riot in the streets, or do whatever else it is that they would be doing, 488 00:31:17,810 --> 00:31:21,100 if they don’t go to work. If you have enough of these people, not doing that, 489 00:31:21,100 --> 00:31:24,399 then it becomes the right decision for the lonely person that is out there 490 00:31:24,399 --> 00:31:29,439 to also take antidepressants. 491 00:31:29,439 --> 00:31:33,029 Our community – we have to face this – has a large pool 492 00:31:33,030 --> 00:31:36,100 of what I would call non-neuro-normative people. 493 00:31:36,100 --> 00:31:39,949 There are lots of people in our community that are on the autistic sprectrum, 494 00:31:39,949 --> 00:31:43,539 that are bipolar, that are... there is lots of people 495 00:31:43,539 --> 00:31:47,419 that are not the standard norm, 496 00:31:47,419 --> 00:31:50,889 when it comes to their neurology. 497 00:31:50,889 --> 00:31:53,559 What does that mean? What does this mean in practice? 498 00:31:53,559 --> 00:31:58,150 Hasn’t it always been the artists, the slightly crazy people, 499 00:31:58,150 --> 00:32:01,380 the slightly non-normative people, that have seen things coming first, 500 00:32:01,380 --> 00:32:04,640 that have warned about things first? 501 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,610 These are things we need to think about. 502 00:32:07,610 --> 00:32:12,750 Frank: Another thing that we need to take care about in our community is: 503 00:32:12,750 --> 00:32:16,599 “Just because you’re paranoid, doesn’t mean that they’re not out to get you” 504 00:32:16,599 --> 00:32:19,769 holds more true than ever. 505 00:32:19,769 --> 00:32:23,799 Because we have now in our midth..., 506 00:32:23,799 --> 00:32:27,989 in our middle quite a number of people who are actually harassed 507 00:32:27,989 --> 00:32:34,530 by the governments. So if you look at the people from Occupy in the US, 508 00:32:34,530 --> 00:32:38,390 basically the refugee waves that are coming in from the US, 509 00:32:38,390 --> 00:32:41,259 the political refugees that are coming from there. 510 00:32:41,259 --> 00:32:43,799 They’re coming now also from Hungary and Poland. 511 00:32:43,799 --> 00:32:48,519 People who have really been oppressed and really experienced 512 00:32:48,529 --> 00:32:51,609 a lot of harassment from the hands of their governments. 513 00:32:51,609 --> 00:32:56,560 And so we need to be also clear that the more crypto that we use, 514 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,009 the better our technical security systems get, 515 00:32:59,009 --> 00:33:01,539 the more classic the intelligence agencies will get as well, 516 00:33:01,539 --> 00:33:03,699 that means more informants. 517 00:33:03,699 --> 00:33:07,889 And so we need to figure out ways to 518 00:33:07,889 --> 00:33:11,089 sort the needlessly paranoid and slightly crazy people from the people 519 00:33:11,089 --> 00:33:17,229 who really have a problem with oppression and being followed around. 520 00:33:17,229 --> 00:33:20,729 So informants are tools of power. 521 00:33:20,729 --> 00:33:26,090 We need to talk about the power structures that are using them. 522 00:33:26,090 --> 00:33:31,350 So if you look at the larger picture, we have basically 3 major models 523 00:33:31,350 --> 00:33:35,320 of society that we have on this planet today. 524 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:41,859 It’s more the US Ayn Rand ultra-individualistic 525 00:33:41,859 --> 00:33:47,059 surveillance state system, that says that everything that you can do 526 00:33:47,059 --> 00:33:50,579 for yourself is good for you and the state surveils everybody else 527 00:33:50,579 --> 00:33:54,590 so stuff stays within the prescribed limits. 528 00:33:54,590 --> 00:34:00,880 Then we have the Chinese model of the harmonic society, that essentially says: 529 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:06,320 When we can keep this 100 000 people happy, it’s okay to kill this 1000 people. 530 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:10,720 And is... yeah... another way of saying 531 00:34:10,720 --> 00:34:15,159 utilitaristic usage of power is justified. 532 00:34:15,159 --> 00:34:19,049 And then we have the European model, that is more on a traditional 533 00:34:19,049 --> 00:34:20,719 of enlightenment, of individualism, 534 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,399 of balancing out state power and economic power. 535 00:34:24,399 --> 00:34:28,069 But none of these models is really superior against the other 536 00:34:28,069 --> 00:34:30,409 because all of them are deeply corrupt. 537 00:34:30,409 --> 00:34:35,650 So all of them have been corrupted by various interests 538 00:34:35,650 --> 00:34:41,200 and if we can not solve the corruption of the political process, 539 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,049 then all these models kind of converge. 540 00:34:44,049 --> 00:34:48,049 So it doesn’t really matter any more, if you are living under a Chinese 541 00:34:48,049 --> 00:34:50,399 surveillance state or a US surveillance state. 542 00:34:50,399 --> 00:34:54,170 Maybe you can watch better pornography in one than in the other, 543 00:34:54,170 --> 00:34:56,320 but that’s about probably it. 544 00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:01,850 And so... and if we can not get this corruption out of the systems, 545 00:35:01,850 --> 00:35:05,250 regardless under what systems we live, 546 00:35:05,250 --> 00:35:11,450 then the problems will not go away. 547 00:35:11,450 --> 00:35:15,379 Yeah, we should understand that surveillance, ubiquitous surveillance 548 00:35:15,379 --> 00:35:18,799 means that we have less and less small scale corruption. 549 00:35:18,799 --> 00:35:21,510 So basically small briberies to get your passport faster, 550 00:35:21,510 --> 00:35:23,940 or to get the building permit done, 551 00:35:23,940 --> 00:35:28,100 but surveillance means that the corruption needs to be large scale. 552 00:35:28,100 --> 00:35:32,079 That’s the billions, not the hundreds of Dollars or Euros 553 00:35:32,079 --> 00:35:37,250 that you’re talking about. That means... the surveillance state means that 554 00:35:37,250 --> 00:35:41,689 larger and larger interests are at play and that these are the ones 555 00:35:41,689 --> 00:35:45,520 that are dominating the state. And these are harder and harder to fight. 556 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:49,344 So fighting the small corruption of a corrupt official in your hometown 557 00:35:49,344 --> 00:35:50,974 is doable. 558 00:35:50,974 --> 00:35:57,784 Fighting a large multi billion dollar weapons manufacturer 559 00:35:57,784 --> 00:36:01,569 is becoming slightly more complicated. 560 00:36:01,569 --> 00:36:07,710 So, we have tried to... to visualize 561 00:36:07,710 --> 00:36:11,400 the situation somewhat. 562 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:17,339 So we have this graph where we have 563 00:36:17,339 --> 00:36:20,099 on the one axis liberty, democracy, civilization, 564 00:36:20,099 --> 00:36:22,210 on the other one we have time. 565 00:36:22,210 --> 00:36:25,129 And we... what we want... 566 00:36:25,129 --> 00:36:29,180 Rop: Don’t kill yourself just yet! There’s more positive messages out there. 567 00:36:29,180 --> 00:36:31,700 Frank: Yes! *is laughing* 568 00:36:31,700 --> 00:36:36,890 So what we don’t know is how long will it be till rock bottom, 569 00:36:36,890 --> 00:36:40,799 we don’t know what will be coming later, 570 00:36:40,799 --> 00:36:43,980 so if it will go down further or will go up at some point 571 00:36:43,980 --> 00:36:47,340 and we also don’t know how deep the valley will be. 572 00:36:47,340 --> 00:36:50,350 So but, what is pretty sure, 573 00:36:50,350 --> 00:36:55,710 is that stuff will not be really rosy for a while. 574 00:36:55,710 --> 00:37:01,100 So if you look at the tendencies in the world that we have briefly discussed now, 575 00:37:01,100 --> 00:37:04,730 it doesn’t really... it’s not really possible to say: 576 00:37:04,730 --> 00:37:09,249 “Okay, revolution next week, things will be good again.” 577 00:37:09,249 --> 00:37:10,779 So this would be just a lie. 578 00:37:10,779 --> 00:37:15,410 So we need to understand, that the next decades 579 00:37:15,410 --> 00:37:19,509 will be more greyish than beautiful, in that sense. 580 00:37:19,509 --> 00:37:20,999 So there will be lots of §$%&. 581 00:37:20,999 --> 00:37:27,210 But, that doesn’t mean, that they can not be good fulfilling decades for us. 582 00:37:27,210 --> 00:37:30,489 That doesn’t mean that we need to be depressed about it. 583 00:37:30,489 --> 00:37:33,990 It’s just the world that we live in and the world we live in we can 584 00:37:33,990 --> 00:37:39,210 change to a certain extent but not by wishful thinking. 585 00:37:39,210 --> 00:37:46,209 Rop: Yeah! *applause* 586 00:37:47,959 --> 00:37:50,880 So let’s look at a few trends. 587 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:56,710 Terrorism is now the main reason why we need to be discarding basic civil rights. 588 00:37:56,710 --> 00:37:59,420 But I remember being a child in the 1970s 589 00:37:59,420 --> 00:38:02,400 and my parents tuning into the morning broadcast to hear 590 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:06,920 whether the hostages in the train or the hostages in the school in Holland... 591 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:12,209 there was a conflict with Moluccans 592 00:38:12,209 --> 00:38:15,310 wanting there own state and they took hostages and they were threatening 593 00:38:15,310 --> 00:38:18,280 to shoot them. Conflicts lasted for weeks. 594 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,170 Many more people died of terrorism in Europe 595 00:38:21,170 --> 00:38:26,319 in the 1960s and 70s than they did in the 80s and 90s and onward. 596 00:38:26,319 --> 00:38:30,200 But nobody spoke about discarding basic civil rights. 597 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:33,330 Why? Because it was simply too expensive. I think we can say that now. 598 00:38:33,330 --> 00:38:37,870 Because in that time it was seen as ridiculous for the East German state 599 00:38:37,870 --> 00:38:41,599 to want to know who sent mail to who or to open all these envelopes. 600 00:38:41,599 --> 00:38:44,160 That was seen as typical things that only 601 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,210 a police state would ever contemplate on doing. 602 00:38:47,210 --> 00:38:50,770 All of these things are being implemented now. Why? Because it’s cheap enough! 603 00:38:50,770 --> 00:38:55,630 This was all cost driven, not danger driven! 604 00:38:55,630 --> 00:39:01,779 *applause* 605 00:39:01,779 --> 00:39:07,089 And we can see long term strategies. We can see strategies that span decades, 606 00:39:07,089 --> 00:39:11,750 the treaties, the internationally harmonised legislation, 607 00:39:11,750 --> 00:39:17,820 ACTA, CESA, cybercrime treaties, TTIP... what not... what not... etc. etc. 608 00:39:17,820 --> 00:39:19,820 They used to cement the economic status quo, 609 00:39:19,820 --> 00:39:23,169 or they used to increase surveillance and repression. 610 00:39:23,169 --> 00:39:26,550 And it’s like they figured out the strategy. There is now a treaty train 611 00:39:26,550 --> 00:39:32,140 leaving every year or two years and it’s to wear down the activists. 612 00:39:32,140 --> 00:39:34,780 Everything that the activists managed to get off the train 613 00:39:34,780 --> 00:39:36,559 is just put on the next train. 614 00:39:36,559 --> 00:39:39,719 See if you can mobilise the same things, 615 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,349 the same level of activism two years later. 616 00:39:42,349 --> 00:39:45,210 How often do we need to mobilise the same fight 617 00:39:45,210 --> 00:39:49,930 to fight the same damn unconstitutional laws? 618 00:39:49,930 --> 00:39:53,680 There is very necessary activism that is... always 619 00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:57,850 has this “Act now to stop this evil law from coming into effect.” 620 00:39:57,850 --> 00:40:00,349 It’s very important! It needs to happen. 621 00:40:00,349 --> 00:40:04,710 But it may not be enough. We don’t have ready-to-go answers; maybe, there is a few 622 00:40:04,710 --> 00:40:10,400 ideas we have, and other people have, but we need clever and funny strategies. 623 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,750 Because I’m often called a pessimist and 624 00:40:13,750 --> 00:40:15,950 “Oh my god it’s all doom and gloom.” 625 00:40:15,950 --> 00:40:20,500 But a lot of what’s going on in the world right now is actually very funny. 626 00:40:20,500 --> 00:40:23,510 It’s funny in a very dark way. It’s a very dark humour. 627 00:40:23,510 --> 00:40:27,360 But you can not look at this world and go “Oh my god, this is...”. 628 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:31,770 It’s so stereotypical. And we have to make people see this. 629 00:40:31,770 --> 00:40:34,540 We have to be the clowns. We have to make people see this. 630 00:40:34,540 --> 00:40:36,420 If the Interior Minister says: 631 00:40:36,420 --> 00:40:40,749 “Well, parts of my answer would make the population insecure.” 632 00:40:40,749 --> 00:40:46,880 *laughing, applause* 633 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:50,300 ...that deserves roaring laughter from the entire population, 634 00:40:50,300 --> 00:40:54,260 ‘cause it’s the only thing that will work. 635 00:40:54,260 --> 00:40:59,540 *applause* 636 00:40:59,540 --> 00:41:03,509 But what we also need is, we need to dare to dream ahead. 637 00:41:03,509 --> 00:41:06,580 There is... A lot of strategies in activism are incremental, 638 00:41:06,580 --> 00:41:09,969 meaning we are here, we want to go there, so let’s chop this up 639 00:41:09,969 --> 00:41:13,140 into 10 little pieces and then start working on the first two. 640 00:41:13,140 --> 00:41:15,970 Whereas in reality we are not here, because there is so much 641 00:41:15,970 --> 00:41:18,220 chaos going on. There are so many events happening, 642 00:41:18,220 --> 00:41:21,590 that we are actually all over the place all the time. 643 00:41:21,590 --> 00:41:25,749 So we need to build strategies that assume that we are not in the place, 644 00:41:25,749 --> 00:41:29,789 where we are in today. But we assume we are somewhere completely different. 645 00:41:29,789 --> 00:41:32,050 And sometimes we win. 646 00:41:32,050 --> 00:41:35,860 We have very few strategies for when people we like 647 00:41:35,860 --> 00:41:39,540 or people who’s ideas we agree with actually get to power. 648 00:41:39,540 --> 00:41:42,170 Do we know what laws we would like to have repealed? 649 00:41:42,170 --> 00:41:44,359 What new laws would we like to have passed? 650 00:41:44,359 --> 00:41:47,109 Have we maybe taken the time to write these laws already? 651 00:41:47,109 --> 00:41:49,990 Even though they are ridiculous today? 652 00:41:49,990 --> 00:41:53,099 Is there an Anti-Patriot-Act? Is there an... ? 653 00:41:53,099 --> 00:41:55,570 We’ve tried to work on a few of these things. 654 00:41:55,570 --> 00:41:58,139 I’ve been personally a part of thinking about IMMI, 655 00:41:58,139 --> 00:42:00,320 the Icelandic Modern Media Initiative. 656 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:04,860 That was an idea: can we create a system of laws to protect publications? 657 00:42:04,860 --> 00:42:07,479 Anywhere from whistleblower protection, 658 00:42:07,479 --> 00:42:10,920 protection of journalists, protection of publications. 659 00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,880 So can we make a system of laws and can we figure out how they would all 660 00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:17,220 work together to protect publications in one country and then 661 00:42:17,220 --> 00:42:21,560 through sort of a spreading effect make that go to other countries. 662 00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:25,240 We need to... we need to dare to think ahead! 663 00:42:25,240 --> 00:42:30,030 And to not just always react and always be driven into this little corner, 664 00:42:30,030 --> 00:42:32,700 which we have to fight a way out of. 665 00:42:32,700 --> 00:42:36,260 In many countries discontent with the powers that be, with the way things are, 666 00:42:36,260 --> 00:42:40,960 is growing. In some countries that leads to left wing movements 667 00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,579 growing or getting... even getting to power. 668 00:42:43,579 --> 00:42:47,870 There’s things going on in Portugal, in Spain, in the UK, 669 00:42:47,870 --> 00:42:52,250 where Corbyn is now leading the Labour Party. 670 00:42:52,250 --> 00:42:55,780 In other countries and powers those that challenge the status quo 671 00:42:55,780 --> 00:42:59,420 or say they challenge the status quo 672 00:42:59,420 --> 00:43:04,610 with even more fear and anti-immigrant sentiments and policies. 673 00:43:04,610 --> 00:43:08,690 And in the US interestingly we see both trends happening, 674 00:43:08,690 --> 00:43:12,260 but in an increasingly bizarre corporate media landscape. 675 00:43:12,260 --> 00:43:16,139 So there’s all these things happening. 676 00:43:16,139 --> 00:43:20,390 Frank: Yeah so, one of the things that changed in the last 10 years is: 677 00:43:20,390 --> 00:43:25,549 Stuff can change very, very quickly. So stuff, situations, 678 00:43:25,549 --> 00:43:29,030 reality can change very, very fast. 679 00:43:29,030 --> 00:43:32,590 For instance, let’s look at the refugee situation. 680 00:43:32,590 --> 00:43:36,459 Just a year or two ago what has been happening in Europe in the last month, 681 00:43:36,459 --> 00:43:39,620 would be... have been totally unimaginable. 682 00:43:39,620 --> 00:43:44,470 And there is no security 683 00:43:44,470 --> 00:43:47,139 in the rest of the herd still grazing. 684 00:43:47,139 --> 00:43:51,420 So if you see stuff is nice and well over here in Germany, 685 00:43:51,420 --> 00:43:55,910 which is becoming more and more of an exception in the surrounding countries, 686 00:43:55,910 --> 00:43:59,770 then that doesn’t mean that stuff can not change here very quickly. 687 00:43:59,770 --> 00:44:05,200 And this is something that we need to get adjusted to. That the stability is gone. 688 00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:10,309 So the stability, the dampness of the system are all gone and that means that 689 00:44:10,309 --> 00:44:15,239 these sudden turns of events can also make oppressive regimes 690 00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:20,920 like in Poland or in Hungary or commonly seen in France more powerful. 691 00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:26,789 So we can not guarantee that change is positive in every way. 692 00:44:26,789 --> 00:44:32,109 So if you look at the increased pressures 693 00:44:32,109 --> 00:44:36,719 on the population, we see that 694 00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:42,160 the problems that are multiplying from automation on the one hand; 695 00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:44,849 on the other hand more and more people 696 00:44:44,849 --> 00:44:49,570 not having their talents valued by the market, by the job market any more 697 00:44:49,570 --> 00:44:53,160 and the pressures that are now coming in with the refugees 698 00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:58,280 will make right wing powers probably more powerful. 699 00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:01,589 And the question is: In this fight for power 700 00:45:01,589 --> 00:45:05,760 in the Western countries that will becoming more pronounced political fights 701 00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:07,710 how do we position ourselves? 702 00:45:07,710 --> 00:45:11,840 How does the hacking community position itself in these fights? 703 00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:14,320 So will we engage? Will we fight? How? 704 00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:18,490 What is the... yeah... what is the means 705 00:45:18,490 --> 00:45:22,350 and the goals that we are aiming for? 706 00:45:22,350 --> 00:45:27,639 And the world today is uniquely connected and complicated. 707 00:45:27,639 --> 00:45:31,490 So any solutions are going to be complex. 708 00:45:31,490 --> 00:45:33,809 That means we need a generation of activists 709 00:45:33,809 --> 00:45:36,310 that is post-depression about the situation 710 00:45:36,310 --> 00:45:39,800 and that doesn’t have any fear of complexity. 711 00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,320 So complexity is the new norm. 712 00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:47,460 It’s not like things or simple solutions will be around the corner any more. 713 00:45:47,460 --> 00:45:52,090 This time is gone forever. 714 00:45:52,090 --> 00:45:57,670 Rop: So, we did this talk in 2005 and it was, in many ways it was taboo. 715 00:45:57,670 --> 00:46:02,449 All of congress was depressed for a while or at least 716 00:46:02,449 --> 00:46:05,480 people were walking around with gloomy faces. 717 00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:10,850 And there was then and there still is today a myth in the progressive community, 718 00:46:10,850 --> 00:46:13,349 that a story must have a happy end. 719 00:46:13,349 --> 00:46:15,910 If you want to get large groups of people 720 00:46:15,910 --> 00:46:18,369 to come together and fight to make change, 721 00:46:18,369 --> 00:46:22,930 you have to present a happy end. 722 00:46:22,930 --> 00:46:26,480 And this is bullshit! 723 00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:33,759 *applause, cheering* 724 00:46:33,759 --> 00:46:36,820 The problem with that message is that you create a disconnect 725 00:46:36,820 --> 00:46:40,489 between the reality that people can see, a reality where outcomes are gradually 726 00:46:40,489 --> 00:46:43,370 getting worse in some fields and the world 727 00:46:43,370 --> 00:46:46,880 that they are told to believe in. 728 00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,950 Everybody is hiring PR professionals 729 00:46:49,950 --> 00:46:54,549 and PR professionals are... their job is to keep everybody consuming. 730 00:46:54,549 --> 00:46:56,470 So their job is to present happy outcomes. 731 00:46:56,470 --> 00:46:58,730 Their job is to keep people to spend their money. 732 00:46:58,730 --> 00:47:01,579 And so we tend to believe these people, when they say: 733 00:47:01,579 --> 00:47:04,370 “Well you must have a happy outcome. 734 00:47:04,370 --> 00:47:06,890 Let’s all... Let’s tell people that if they don’t 735 00:47:06,890 --> 00:47:10,909 buy the right light bulbs and don’t get their electricity 736 00:47:10,909 --> 00:47:13,019 from the right provider and buy a Prius 737 00:47:13,019 --> 00:47:16,380 then they’re themselves responsible for any bad outcomes that happen.” 738 00:47:16,380 --> 00:47:20,079 So shame everybody into believing that the bad outcome is actually them. 739 00:47:20,079 --> 00:47:23,209 That’s a frame that we should reject. 740 00:47:23,209 --> 00:47:28,150 We’ve been warning progressive people, that have seen things coming, about 741 00:47:28,150 --> 00:47:32,700 what’s going on right now since the 1970s. The coming of the police state, the fact 742 00:47:32,700 --> 00:47:36,790 that planetary resources are limited, there’s limits to growth. That’s 1972. 743 00:47:36,790 --> 00:47:43,790 I was 4 years old. So let’s not fall for this kind of messaging. 744 00:47:49,630 --> 00:47:52,610 Frank: The question is then: What is our mission? 745 00:47:52,610 --> 00:47:55,870 What is the stuff that we should aim for? 746 00:47:55,870 --> 00:47:59,240 And one thing that should be very clear about is 747 00:47:59,240 --> 00:48:01,200 this planet is a crime scene. 748 00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:04,269 And this also means that... 749 00:48:04,269 --> 00:48:08,579 *applause* 750 00:48:08,579 --> 00:48:12,060 the thing to say to the people responsible is: so for decades we have made it 751 00:48:12,060 --> 00:48:15,340 very clear that we don’t want to live in an 1984 752 00:48:15,340 --> 00:48:18,240 environmental degraded police state. 753 00:48:18,240 --> 00:48:23,079 We saw it coming but we went there anyway, because it was short-term profitable 754 00:48:23,079 --> 00:48:26,810 and your corporate friends were very well off with that. 755 00:48:26,810 --> 00:48:31,609 So please, now, step aside, place your hands where we can see them 756 00:48:31,609 --> 00:48:35,520 and we will read you your rights, while we try to mitigate the shit that you caused 757 00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:38,169 as best as we can. 758 00:48:38,169 --> 00:48:41,279 *applause* 759 00:48:41,279 --> 00:48:46,860 So the forces that made the world as it is today are not natural laws. 760 00:48:46,860 --> 00:48:49,609 It’s not like this greed and this corruption 761 00:48:49,609 --> 00:48:52,250 is the native state of humanity. 762 00:48:52,250 --> 00:48:55,380 It is just what people made it to be. 763 00:48:55,380 --> 00:48:59,300 And so, the people who did it are nameable. 764 00:48:59,300 --> 00:49:03,380 So we know that the fossil fuel industry knew since the 70s and 80s 765 00:49:03,380 --> 00:49:06,950 that they were basically causing planetary collapse, 766 00:49:06,950 --> 00:49:09,840 that they were causing the climate 767 00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:12,889 to go down for their corporate profits. 768 00:49:12,889 --> 00:49:16,709 And that also means that we need to preserve the evidence. 769 00:49:16,709 --> 00:49:20,149 So we may not be yet in the position that we can cause prosecution 770 00:49:20,149 --> 00:49:23,019 of these people, but this time will certainly come, 771 00:49:23,019 --> 00:49:26,020 hopefully before our children are too old for that. 772 00:49:26,020 --> 00:49:28,240 And so, we don’t need to really fight 773 00:49:28,240 --> 00:49:31,440 their silly PR efforts to still preserve their profits. 774 00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:34,410 So what we need to do is collect the evidence and let them know 775 00:49:34,410 --> 00:49:38,609 that we collect the evidence and that we will use it some time. 776 00:49:38,609 --> 00:49:46,180 *applause* 777 00:49:46,180 --> 00:49:50,319 So in the 80s we thought that all change is good. 778 00:49:50,319 --> 00:49:53,430 So because the world was kind of frozen in place so that 779 00:49:53,430 --> 00:49:56,399 especially in our fields, in technology and telecommunications, 780 00:49:56,399 --> 00:49:59,640 we thought that all change is good, 781 00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:03,890 but now we need to remind ourselves that not all change is bad. 782 00:50:03,890 --> 00:50:07,040 So because when we are in a world that we 783 00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:12,540 think that may not be getting much better soonish, 784 00:50:12,540 --> 00:50:15,400 the sudden impulse would be to revert to 785 00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:17,850 conservatism saying are we try to cliiing to 786 00:50:17,850 --> 00:50:21,289 the status quo and not try to have too much change, 787 00:50:21,289 --> 00:50:25,309 but this would be wrong, because change can also be for the better. 788 00:50:25,309 --> 00:50:30,170 So this absence of stability is the new norm. 789 00:50:30,170 --> 00:50:35,320 We need to live with that. And we need to work for making positive change, 790 00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:39,689 because change itself can no longer be averted. 791 00:50:39,689 --> 00:50:43,810 Rop: Yeah, we need to define missions for ourselves and argue for them 792 00:50:43,810 --> 00:50:48,760 to be worthwhile, personally as well as in the bigger picture. 793 00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:52,789 Picture a world were... yes, some outcomes may be negative 794 00:50:52,789 --> 00:50:56,790 or things may be getting worse, but you can do meaningful stuff in the 795 00:50:56,790 --> 00:51:01,080 life-saving, democracy-rescuing, world-changing sense of the word. 796 00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:07,060 No fake utopian outcomes, no lies to tell people, 797 00:51:07,060 --> 00:51:10,949 but still very positive at the personal level for each and everyone of us. 798 00:51:10,949 --> 00:51:13,809 The sense of belonging to a community like the one we have, 799 00:51:13,809 --> 00:51:17,269 but other communities as well, is going to become more important. 800 00:51:17,269 --> 00:51:20,000 In difficult times people will come together. 801 00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:22,840 There’s great happiness in the sense of purpose to be found in caring 802 00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:26,329 for your friends, sharing knowledge and experience. 803 00:51:26,329 --> 00:51:30,050 Especially if things get a little bit hairy. 804 00:51:30,050 --> 00:51:33,190 And even if we end up in a bad possible future, 805 00:51:33,190 --> 00:51:36,990 if things degrade, if infrastructure starts to fail, 806 00:51:36,990 --> 00:51:42,480 even if that happens, the hacker mindset is – I’ve said this before – 807 00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:47,089 is a post-apocalyptically appropriate way of thinking. 808 00:51:47,089 --> 00:51:50,719 Wouldn’t you run to your hackerspace, 809 00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:52,569 if things really went wrong? 810 00:51:52,569 --> 00:51:57,469 Wouldn’t it... if the world went down in chaos, 811 00:51:57,469 --> 00:52:00,970 I would really want it to happen somewhere at the end of December, because 812 00:52:00,970 --> 00:52:05,440 you all would be the people I would want to be around. 813 00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:12,440 *applause* 814 00:52:14,370 --> 00:52:19,279 I would like to think of this community as having a role, 815 00:52:19,279 --> 00:52:21,270 when things go wrong. 816 00:52:21,270 --> 00:52:25,419 And many of us have taken on these roles. 817 00:52:25,419 --> 00:52:31,009 I was travelling to some of the Eastern European countries 818 00:52:31,009 --> 00:52:36,319 to Serbia, to Croatia to see some of the refugee situations 819 00:52:36,319 --> 00:52:38,989 with my own eyes. 820 00:52:38,989 --> 00:52:41,690 And I think many more of us need to be there. 821 00:52:41,690 --> 00:52:46,010 There can’t be just one guy from Zagreb running around with wireless modems 822 00:52:46,010 --> 00:52:48,509 to try to connect all the people that are trying 823 00:52:48,509 --> 00:52:50,900 to help there and try to disseminate information. 824 00:52:50,900 --> 00:52:55,830 Many more of us need to be in these situations. 825 00:52:55,830 --> 00:53:02,830 *applause* 826 00:53:03,030 --> 00:53:07,279 Frank: And so, we have been following 827 00:53:07,279 --> 00:53:11,370 the strategy of enlarging our cultural, 828 00:53:11,370 --> 00:53:15,860 or culture, the hacking culture over the last many years. 829 00:53:15,860 --> 00:53:19,409 You probably noticed that from... I don’t know, if you look back at 830 00:53:19,409 --> 00:53:24,430 the Eidelstedter Bürgerhaus, the congress was still looking a bit drab, 831 00:53:24,430 --> 00:53:29,959 whereas now we have an... artists and people from the various cultural domains 832 00:53:29,959 --> 00:53:34,980 as an integrated part of our community, of our culture. 833 00:53:34,980 --> 00:53:38,630 And this is essentially what we need to do. 834 00:53:38,630 --> 00:53:41,789 So if you look at the last, back at the last 10 years 835 00:53:41,789 --> 00:53:46,180 the stuff that was made working 836 00:53:46,180 --> 00:53:48,490 is the alliance between the hackers, 837 00:53:48,490 --> 00:53:52,140 the journalists, investigative journalists, and the artists. 838 00:53:52,140 --> 00:53:55,680 So this is something that is working now. This is a big achievement. 839 00:53:55,680 --> 00:54:02,529 So that we can say: This is something where we managed to grow our culture, 840 00:54:02,529 --> 00:54:08,369 so growing from a couple 100 people in some old community building in Hamburg, 841 00:54:08,369 --> 00:54:12,429 now we’re having 12 000 people and could be 15 000 if this house would house us. 842 00:54:12,429 --> 00:54:14,820 This is a big change. 843 00:54:14,820 --> 00:54:18,809 And this is also something we can be proud of. 844 00:54:18,809 --> 00:54:25,810 *applause* 845 00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:30,700 So if we want to form further alliances, 846 00:54:30,700 --> 00:54:33,910 so we need to... in order to succeed 847 00:54:33,910 --> 00:54:37,559 we need to actively stop the trend that people are 848 00:54:37,559 --> 00:54:40,040 choosing minor bickering fights. 849 00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:45,109 That they are more interested in fighting the heretics in their own ranks, 850 00:54:45,109 --> 00:54:48,959 in the people who are not using the words that they like 851 00:54:48,959 --> 00:54:52,529 or that are finding different stuff important. 852 00:54:52,529 --> 00:54:55,599 So we’re all having more or less the same goals 853 00:54:55,599 --> 00:54:58,240 this is basically what makes us a culture, 854 00:54:58,240 --> 00:55:00,889 is that we’re having the same ideas about 855 00:55:00,889 --> 00:55:03,720 the general structure of society how it should be, 856 00:55:03,720 --> 00:55:06,039 the same ideas how people should interact 857 00:55:06,039 --> 00:55:08,699 and the rights of the individuum. 858 00:55:08,699 --> 00:55:13,140 And we should actively try to stop fighting each other. 859 00:55:13,140 --> 00:55:18,340 So we are not each other’s enemy. 860 00:55:18,340 --> 00:55:25,340 *applause* 861 00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:30,339 The enemy is something different. 862 00:55:30,339 --> 00:55:35,510 So we have seen quite a number of people 863 00:55:35,510 --> 00:55:41,139 who tried to 864 00:55:41,139 --> 00:55:42,439 find the heretics 865 00:55:42,439 --> 00:55:46,749 as their main goal in life, as their enemy in life 866 00:55:46,749 --> 00:55:52,620 and ended up in finding no real purpose any more. 867 00:55:52,620 --> 00:55:56,849 Because when they solved this one “problem”, 868 00:55:56,849 --> 00:56:00,440 they still ended up with having not solved the bigger problem. 869 00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:02,910 And we have seen the same thing happening 870 00:56:02,910 --> 00:56:06,140 for more and more smaller issues like 871 00:56:06,140 --> 00:56:09,610 animal rights, people finding out okay... 872 00:56:09,610 --> 00:56:14,300 or human environment people not finding solutions, 873 00:56:14,300 --> 00:56:18,329 that they can really bring forward, because the problems are bigger than 874 00:56:18,329 --> 00:56:22,750 their individual... and smaller problems that they’re trying to fight. 875 00:56:22,750 --> 00:56:27,310 So we need to look at the bigger picture. And this is essentially the problem 876 00:56:27,310 --> 00:56:30,949 that we need to solve as a community, as a culture 877 00:56:30,949 --> 00:56:34,389 to keep focused on the bigger picture and not trying to fight 878 00:56:34,389 --> 00:56:38,570 our little wars among each other. 879 00:56:38,570 --> 00:56:41,860 What editor is the best? What Linux distribution is the best? 880 00:56:41,860 --> 00:56:46,270 What programming language is the best? What way of gendering is the best? 881 00:56:46,270 --> 00:56:50,850 So these are meaningless fights. This is nothing worth spending your energy on. 882 00:56:50,850 --> 00:56:57,850 *applause* 883 00:57:05,150 --> 00:57:08,979 So, ... 884 00:57:11,509 --> 00:57:15,610 Rop: We need to be aware that there are money aspects 885 00:57:15,610 --> 00:57:19,179 and social economic tensions within our culture. 886 00:57:19,179 --> 00:57:22,470 Things are different than they were 20, 30 years ago 887 00:57:22,470 --> 00:57:25,959 because the economy of our subculture has changed, 888 00:57:25,959 --> 00:57:30,300 because our community is much wider and broader. 889 00:57:30,300 --> 00:57:33,330 Many younger people do not have the kind of stability, 890 00:57:33,330 --> 00:57:36,369 that many of the now older people in this crowd have. 891 00:57:36,369 --> 00:57:40,409 Hardcore hardware and software hackers that have established themselves usually 892 00:57:40,409 --> 00:57:45,300 do not have a problem making a living in today’s project oriented job economy. 893 00:57:45,300 --> 00:57:48,890 But many who came to our cultural space in the last years are designers, 894 00:57:48,890 --> 00:57:53,799 they’re artists. They’re from other adjacent fields. 895 00:57:53,799 --> 00:57:57,290 They’re living more and more precariously, because 896 00:57:57,290 --> 00:58:01,860 their competition in their fields is much more fierce. We need to take care of this 897 00:58:01,860 --> 00:58:05,280 at least where we can to keep our community economically accessible. 898 00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:06,690 *applause* 899 00:58:06,690 --> 00:58:12,320 That means... *applause* 900 00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:16,030 ...we encourage various forms of economic cooperation to make sources of income 901 00:58:16,030 --> 00:58:19,499 more widely accessible. 902 00:58:19,499 --> 00:58:24,280 Hackerspaces are not just the new universities, they’re also the new co-ops. 903 00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:29,279 That means solidarity between people of different skill sets and talents. 904 00:58:29,279 --> 00:58:32,560 And we need to grow the economic footprint of this community, 905 00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:35,999 applying more of our thinking and our skills to problems outside of 906 00:58:35,999 --> 00:58:39,250 the core field of IT: agriculture, 907 00:58:39,250 --> 00:58:43,720 energy, transportation. In essence, let there not be an interesting field 908 00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:48,540 out there that does not have a hackerspace dedicated to it. 909 00:58:48,540 --> 00:58:55,149 *applause* 910 00:58:55,149 --> 00:58:58,609 Frank: So, in closing: 911 00:58:58,609 --> 00:59:02,589 we are headed for some very rough times. 912 00:59:02,589 --> 00:59:06,909 That’s undeniable but it doesn’t mean that we can not have a lot of fun on that. 913 00:59:06,909 --> 00:59:10,550 So we know, the surf is good when the waves are getting bigger. 914 00:59:10,550 --> 00:59:18,550 And... *applause* 915 00:59:18,550 --> 00:59:21,320 and sometimes in many places just keeping 916 00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:26,030 the ideas of political freedom alive is a political act. 917 00:59:26,030 --> 00:59:29,619 So basically our mission is to keep the torch burning, 918 00:59:29,619 --> 00:59:34,710 so to keep the ideas of freedom, of individual rights, 919 00:59:34,710 --> 00:59:39,259 of a society that’s transparent and just alive. 920 00:59:39,259 --> 00:59:41,930 Our community is uniquely positioned to do that. 921 00:59:41,930 --> 00:59:45,480 We can build the tools to make the activists 922 00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:50,499 and political activists capable of still effecting change. 923 00:59:50,499 --> 00:59:53,529 We are the ones who can develop new forms of communications. 924 00:59:53,529 --> 00:59:56,469 If you look at this whole podcast universe for instance, 925 00:59:56,469 --> 00:59:59,199 that was essentially created in our community 926 00:59:59,199 --> 01:00:01,890 and that is reaching many more people now 927 01:00:01,890 --> 01:00:06,430 with political education than common forms have been before. 928 01:00:06,430 --> 01:00:09,240 Or if you look at just the open-source movements 929 01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:11,530 that are more as running our planet now. 930 01:00:11,530 --> 01:00:14,219 So we are the people who are responsible 931 01:00:14,219 --> 01:00:17,019 to a large extent for effecting a better outcome. 932 01:00:17,019 --> 01:00:21,009 And this is something that we need to take responsibility for. 933 01:00:21,009 --> 01:00:24,300 Rop: So in closing really: No! 934 01:00:24,300 --> 01:00:30,330 There will probably not be a revolution magically manifesting itself next Friday. 935 01:00:30,330 --> 01:00:34,430 Probably also no Zombie Apocalypse. But still we need to be ready 936 01:00:34,430 --> 01:00:38,670 for rapid and sizeable changes of all sorts of kinds. 937 01:00:38,670 --> 01:00:43,390 And the only way to be effective in this and probably that’s our mission 938 01:00:43,390 --> 01:00:47,700 as a community is to play for the long term, develop a culture that is more fun 939 01:00:47,700 --> 01:00:51,520 and more attractive to more people, develop infrastructure and turn around 940 01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:54,210 and offer that infrastructure to people that need it. 941 01:00:54,210 --> 01:00:56,840 This is not a thing we do as a hobby so much any more. 942 01:00:56,840 --> 01:01:01,049 It’s also something we do for people that need this infrastructure. 943 01:01:01,049 --> 01:01:05,589 Create a culture that’s capable of putting up a fight, that gives its inhabitants 944 01:01:05,589 --> 01:01:09,869 a sense of purpose, so forth, usefulness and enlarge that culture 945 01:01:09,869 --> 01:01:13,770 over time, until it becomes a viable alternative to the status quo. 946 01:01:13,770 --> 01:01:15,390 I guess that was it. 947 01:01:15,390 --> 01:01:17,010 Frank: Thank you! Rop: Thank you! 948 01:01:17,010 --> 01:01:22,239 *applause* 949 01:01:22,239 --> 01:01:29,459 *postroll music* 950 01:01:29,459 --> 01:01:32,789 subtitles created by c3subtitles.de in 2016